MYSTERY IN REVELATION 17 APRIL 2006

March 6, 2006 Post

Greetings:

This is my first post to this group.

Mystery In Revelation 17: 5

Nimrod Was Said To Be a "Gibbor"

The King James for Genesis 10: 9 says Nimrod "...was a mighty hunter before the Lord..."

Mighty is from gibbor. "Before" the Lord is what it says in the King James from the Masoretic Hebrew. It could describe a child who behaves in a defiant way before his parents; or, maybe a child who behaves well before them.

Nimrod also appears in I Chronicals 1: 10 and in Micah 5: 6.

The Nephil or Nephilim are found in Genesis 6: 4 and in Numbers 13:33. Gibbor is used instead in Numbers 13:33. And raphah or rephaim, is in Deuteronomy 2: 11,2: 20, 3: 11 and 3: 13, as well as in Joshua 12: 4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15 and 18:16.

Nephil is translated in the King James as giants. So is gibbor, where in Numbers 13: 33 the gibbor are said to be the sons of Anak.

In Deuteronomy 2: 11 the rephaim, translated as giants, are said to be "...as the Anakims..." Rephaim is translated as giants elsewhere also.

The question is whether the Nephilim, the Gibbor and the Rephaim are all offspring of the "sons of God" and "the daughters of men: in Genesis 6: 1-4. That is, after the Flood, it may be that some of the Nephilim bloodline remained in some of the genes of people producing the giants described in Genesis 6: 1-4, or the "sons of God" reappeared and mixed with the "daughters of men" once more after the Flood. We know that the "sons of God" is a phrase used in Job 1: 6, 2: 1, and 38: 7 describing the visits of angels to see God. Jude 6 may refer to this in saying "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Jude 13 has this to say: "Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever."

Whether or not Nimrod was a Nephilim, he did have their spirit, according to Matthew Henry who says "The same spirit that actuated the giants before the Flood(who became mighty men, men of renown) now revived in him (Nimrod)."

Some say the name Nimrod means rebellion. In fact many Christian writers on Nimrod on the Internet refer to Nimrod's Great Rebellion, the first strong and widespread rebellion against the Lord after the Flood.

'A mighty hunter before the Lord..." The Hebrew word , paneh, which is translated in the King James as "before", Strong's number 6440, can also mean in front of, or against.

Then, in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which Christ and the apostles seem to have quoted in many places in the NT, the Greek word translated from the Hebrew paneh, is enantion, or enantios, which can mean over against, in opposition to, contrary...etc.

The Septuagint says in Genesis 10:9 that "outos erzato einai gigas epi tes ges, outos en gigas kunegus enanion kuriou..." Gigas kunegus enanion kurious is "giant hunter before the Lord." But the Greek word in the Septuagint translated here as "before" is enantios, which the Harold K. Moulton Greek Lexicon Revised says can mean over against, or opposite to.

The Charles Vanderpool Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint in referring to Nimrod in Genesis 10 says "This one was a giant hunter with hounds before the Lord God." I don't know why he added "with hounds."

Vanderpool thought Nimrod was a giant.

If in Ezekiel 8: 12-14, if Tammuz represents Nimrod, the giant or mighty hunter against the Lord, the leader of the Great Rebellion after the Flood, then the women there are weeping for Nimrod who some stories say was executed because of his wickedness, and his body parts scattered. I know that some Babylonian and later legends or myths say that Tammuz was the son of Nimrod and his wife or mother Semiramus, but Tammuz may still in some way represent Nimrod.

It is not easy to find reliable and ancient sources that show a connection between Nimrod and the early forms of Babylonian Mystery Religion. I know that many follow what Alexander Hislop taught about this possible connection in his book, The Two Babylons. Hislop claims that the wife (and mother) of Nimrod, Semiramus, made Nimrod into a god after his death, or execution and created, added to or popularized Babylonian Mystery Religion. But recently Ralph Woodrow in The Babylonian Connection and some others are saying that Hislop did not provide adequate sources for his claims, such as that Nimrod and Semiramus originated the Babylonian Mystery Schools.

Mystery in Revelation 17: 5 and 7, and I Timothy 6: 20

I looked at "mystery" from the Greek musterion in Revelation 17:5 and 7.

"And upon her head was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH...I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

Musterion is used about 19 or 20 times in the New Testament, and in all texts except three it refers to the mystery of the Kingdom of God, the mystery of Christ, the mystery of godliness, and so on.

Paul uses musterion in II Thessalonians 2: 7 in saying "the mystery of iniquity doth already work...:" But here the mystery of iniquity may not necessarily be esoteric knowledge given to initiates in secret societies, but this mystery of iniquity could refer to a broader range of evil which is not always out in the open and therefore a mystery.

But in Revelation 17: 5 "musterion Babulon h megale" the mother of the harlots and abominations of the earth." could refer to Babylonian Mystery Religion as the origin of pagan and false religions, and of the secret societies who claim descent from the Kaballah and Babylonian religion.

In Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words musterion is defined as "primarily that which is known to the mustes, the initiated (from mueo, to initiate into the mysteries...). Among the ancient Greeks, the mysteries were religious rites and ceremonies...Those who were initiated into these mysteries became possessors of certain knowledge, which was not imparted to the uniniated."

Musterion or mueo in the Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised by Harold K. Moulton says the word means "To initiate, instruct in the sacred mysteries...a matter to the knowledge of which initiation is necessary."

Strong's, for number 3466 (Geek), says musterion is a "secret or mystery (through the idea of silence imposed by the initiation into religious rites).

On http://www.houlton.net/monk, for, Thayer's Lexicon, musterion is "A hidden thing, secret...generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the initiated and not to be communicated by them to ordinary mortals...The secret counsels which govern God in dealing with the righteous, which are hidden from the ungodly and wicked men but plain to the godly."

Although musterion is used in the NT many times to talk about the mystery of the kingdom of God, of Christ, of God's decrees and plans, the word as used in Revelation 17: 5 and 7 could refer to the Babylonian Mystery Religion and to esoteric religious knowledge given by that religion to the initiates. Freemasonry, especially at its higher levels, is such a religion.

It's interesting that Babel in Hebrew means confusion and Babulon or Babylon in Greek also means confusion. We are now living in a time of confusion. There is a confusion between right and wrong and often what would have been clearly seen as being wrong 20 or 30 years ago is now done. For example, last year, the 13 day execution of helpless Terri Schiavo, upheld by the courts, and not stopped by the Bush regime or Congress, demonstrates that moral confusion in a horrible way.

I think that part of the confusion described in the Bible and that which we now see going on is a mental state. You could say its a result of a heightened form of the spirit of antichrist (I John 4:3).

Confusion is a blurring of right and wrong.

Evil in our time is partly hidden; its also a mystery, as Paul says in II Thessalonians 2: 7. There is a confusion or blurring of right and wrong now, a loss of moral clarity.

There is also a blurring of understanding.

There has been a loss of sharp discernment in the world that seems to be more evident in the U.S. perhaps because 50 years ago were were not nearly that lacking in discernment. Paul says in I Corinthians 14: 33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints." John Gill and Matthew Henry take this to mean that there must be order in churches, so that everyone does not talk at the same time. Yet I still think that confusion is in part a condition of the mind. Paul mentions a renewing of the mind in Romans 12: 2, that God has given us the spirit of a sound mind in II Timothy 1: 7, and that we may have the mind of Christ (I Corinthians 2: 16). The Holy Spirit in regeneration can give us a mind that is not badly confused in either knowing right and wrong or in cognitive discernment.

I want to get back to Babylonian Mystery Religion and its influence down the centuries.

Albert Pike and other Masonic leaders acknowledge their debt to the Jewish Kaballah and to the Babylonian Mystery Schools.

In his book, Morals and Dogma, Pike says "Every lodge is a temple of religion, and its teaching

instruction in religion." And then,

"Masonry is the successor to the Mysteries."

The Jewish Kaballah, their more occult teachings, is said by many to have been influenced by the Babylonian Mystery religion, and it originated as oral teachings during the Babylonian Captivity of the Jews. Albert Pike, a highly influential high level Mason of the nineteenth century, acknowledges that the Masons got many of their ideas, probably at the higher levels, from the Jewish Kaballah.

In his 1871 book, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and

Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Pike

(1809 to 1891), says of the Jewish Pharisee tradition

that "The primary tradition...has been preserved under

the name of the Kaballah by the priesthood of Israel."

In Morals and Dogma Pike says on p. 74 that "Masonry

is a search after light. That search leads directly

back to the Kaballah. In that ancient and little

understood medly of absurdity and philosophy, the

initiate will find the source of doctrines and may

come to understand the hermetic philosophers."

Alice Bailey, a 19th century forerunner of the contemporary New Age Occult movement, which came out of the countercultures of the sixties, said that "The Masonic Movement is the custodian of the law,

the holder of the Mysteries, and the seat of initiation

 a far more occult organization than can be

realized  intended to be the training school for coming

advanced occultists."

She also says "The occult science of the Ancient Magi was concealed under the

shadows of the Ancient Mysteries: it was imperfectly revealed or

rather disfigured by the Gnostics; it is guessed at under the obscurities

that cover the pretended crimes of the Templars; and it is found enveloped

in enigmas that seem impenetrable, in the Rites of Highest Masonry."

Ancient Babylonian Mysteries have been traced by insiders to this tradition from the Magi of Medo-Persia, to Western Gnosticism, to the Knights Templar, and finally to the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry."

Was Gnosticism influenced by Babylonian Mystery Religion? And did an early form of Gnosticism exist in the First century? Supposedly, the Gnostics wanted esoteric knowledge, and so did the Mystery Schools, they say.

Irenaeus, an early Church Father, in his Adversus Haereses in about 180 AD claimed that Simon Magus was a Gnostic and an influential one. Apparently Irenaeus thought the Simon Magus of legends and tales was the same Simon of Acts 8: 9-24, who wanted to pay Peter to give him the Holy Spirit. I don't know that there is any real proof that the Simon Magus which Irenaeus - and also other Church Fathers - writes about is the Simon of Acts 8. Justin and Tertullian also mention Simon Magus in their writings.

On http:www.themystiuca.com it says that Hippolytus quoted Simon Magus as saying "This is the Book of revelation of the Voice and the Name of knowledge of the Great Infinite Force." Whether the Simon of Acts 8 actually wrote that or not, it sounds like the "Force" of Daniel 11: 38, that the antichrist will "...honor the God of forces," and your discussion of the Ark of Millions of Years, apparently accepted in part by Joyce Riley and Dave Von Kleist on The Power Hour of Genesis Radio Communication Network.

Somebody was into this stuff in the second century at least and it may hark back to the first century.

Albert Pike, the major leader of Freemasonry in the 19th century, said that his god is a force. Albert Pike, on page 102  of his book  Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry (1871) says that

"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of God. The Devil is personification of Atheism and Idolatry. For the initiates, this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may serve for evil."  This quote out of Morals and Dogma is found on:

http://users.1st.net/whitacre/Morals&Dogma.htm

Pike writes about the "Infinite God" as "the mighty cosmic force" again on Page 707 of Morals and Dogma.

Some of the early Gnostics seem also to have been into the god of forces of Daniel 11:38, "But in his estate shall he honor the God of forces:  and a god whom his father knew not shall he honor with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and peasant things."  The god of forces is not a person, but a force.

The "Christian" Gnostics taught that man can come to know hidden knowledge of the nature of things and that this esoteric knowledge can be handed down to the initiates, something which sounds a lot like Babylonian Mystery Religion and secret societies.

Then there is I Timothy 6: 20, "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely, so called."

The King James translates the Greek word gnosis as "science." It could have been translated as knowledge. Paul might have been warning Timothy of more false doctrines that only First Century Gnosticism. But Paul does identify a kind of knowledge that is opposed to the Gospel of Christ and which is futile for salvation and of being obedient to the Lord. In I Timothy 6: 20 "vain babblings" is from one Greek word, kenophonias, which is from kenos, or empty, and phone, a sound, that could mean futile noises or words, empty babblings, or empty words.

Bernard

"No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps a-comin.' " Texas Ranger Captain Bill McDonald

March 14, 2006:

It's interesting that Babel in Hebrew means confusion and Babulon

or Babylon in Greek also means confusion. We are now living in a time

of confusion. There is a confusion between right and wrong and often

what would have been clearly seen as being wrong 20 or 30 years ago

is now done. For example, last year, the 13 day execution of

helpless Terri Schiavo, upheld by the courts, and not stopped by the

Bush regime or Congress, demonstrates that moral confusion in a

horrible way.

I think that part of the confusion described in the Bible and that

which we now see going on is a mental state. You could say its a

result of a heightened form of the spirit of antichrist (I John 4:3).

Confusion is a blurring of right and wrong.

Evil in our time is partly hidden; its also a mystery, as Paul says

in II Thessalonians 2: 7. There is a confusion or blurring of right

and wrong now, a loss of moral clarity.

There is also a blurring of understanding.

Paul writes in Romans 1: 22 that "Professing themselves to be wise,

they became fools." He is talking about hose who hold the truth in

unrighteousness. "They became fools" is all one word in the Greek,

emoranthesan. This is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 3471,

from number 3474, moros, which Strong's says means dull or stupid.

The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, by Harold K. Moulton, says that

moraino in Romans 1: 22 means "to be rendered insipid." That suggests

being dull or lifeless. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament

Words tells us that moros, the root word for moraino, and hence

emoranthesan, means "stupid, foolish"

Emoranthesan is in the aorist tense and passive voice in Romans 1:

22. Note that an "e" is put before moraino and the verb

ending "thesan" is part of the change to put it in the passive

aorist. The sentence could be translated as "Professing themselves

to be wise, they became stupid." Since its passive it means "they

passively received a state of stupidity." This is what has happened

to many people living at this time. They have passively received a

mental condition of stupidity from America Babylon and from the

spirit of antichrist (I John 4: 3). Most of the people who have

acquired a diminished cognitive clarity did not of themselves seek to

become that way; it just happened to them.

There has been a loss of sharp discernment in the world that seems

to be more evident in the U.S. perhaps because 50 years ago were were

not nearly that lacking in discernment. Paul says in I Corinthians

14: 33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in

all the churches of the saints." John Gill and Matthew Henry take

this to mean that there must be order in churches, so that everyone

does not talk at the same time. Yet I still think that confusion is

in part a condition of the mind. Paul mentions a renewing of the mind

in Romans 12: 2, that God has given us the spirit of a sound mind in

II Timothy 1: 7, and that we may have the mind of Christ (I

Corinthians 2: 16). The Holy Spirit in regeneration can give us a

mind that is not badly confused in either knowing right and wrong or

in cognitive discernment.

Understanding in general requires the ability to pay attention. This

cognitive skill has been diminished in many people, and it is

something needed to read and understand moderately demanding texts.

The people who do not pay attention very well do not exert much

mental effort to understand what is going on in the world. And these

people do not have a very large amount of information in their memory

on ideas, issues, events, people and things. E.D. Hirsch in The

First Dictionary of Cultural Literacy (1989) says problems in reading

are due to inadequate amount of information held in memory. He

says "More and more of our young people don't know things we used to

assume they knew."

Those with cognitive clarity problems, or lack of clear discernment

of the times, are not able to make connections very well between what

information they do have stored in their memories. They do not spell

out in an explicit way or elaborate in detail what they know in

thought or in communication. And so, they often cannot remember

something at he right time to make use of that memory. And they have

trouble in creating new combinations of ideas, which is vital to

being creative.

I think that mental confusion in our time can be partly caused by

unclear, ambiguous and deceptive communication to us from other

people, from the mainstream media and the government.

The Bush regime claims we are in a "war on terrorism." But

this "war" has been based upon lies and deceptions and communications

that are too vague.

Communicating in vague generalities can contribute to mental

confusion and cognitive unclarity. I have noticed that within the

Dot Com Culture - and this culture is discussed on the Internet -

there is often an inability or unwillingness to communicate clearly.

Those who offer software that can be downloaded, for example, may not

tell a user in explicit language step by step how to use their

software. Many times the user has to learn by trial and error.

Though George Orwell never said he had become a Christian, he was in

some ways a fairly clear thinker and could write well. In his

essay, "Politics and the English language," he said that "...politics

itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and

schizophrenia." Orwell called for the use of clear language. When

language becomes so ambiguous as to be virtually meaningless, or

nonsense, it is schizophrenic in nature.

Paul says in I Corinthians 14: 8-11 that "...if the trumpet give an

uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise

ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how

shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none

of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the

meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian,

and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me." The words that

are spoken should have a clear signification to the hearers.

He is telling us here that it is better for the edification of the

brethren that we speak in a clear language that can be understood

and not in unknown tongues. But what he says can be applied in a

general way to the issue of communicating in vague generalities which

can be interpreted in so many different ways. Is he suggesting that

those who do not communicate clearly are barbarians?

Bernard